Dan Morrell: The COVID-19 pandemic and the resulting Era of Zoom has physically changed the way we work. But according to Rachel Greenwald (MBA 1993), some of the core tenets of interpersonal communication that were important in the office remain just as important in our new digital workspaces—we just need to adjust our techniques.

Greenwald is a matchmaker, New York Times-bestselling author, and a business communication consultant, and in this episode of Skydeck, she tells contributor April White about the parallels between the business world and the dating world, the important difference between talking and connecting, and why this crisis has already fundamentally changed the way we communicate.

Rachel Greenwald (MBA 1993) (photo by Marea Evans Photography)

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April: Rachel, your interest in communication techniques grew out of what you've seen in your work as a matchmaker. What do the dating world and the business world have in common in this regard?

Rachel: The similarity is about the need to make great first impressions, to really stand out in a crowded marketplace and figure out a way to find a personal brand and create that compelling 30-second elevator pitch. So in dating, singles are not dating in a vacuum. You know, they’re going on dates through dating apps now, maybe five or 10 dates a week. So you really have to be good at making a first impression and standing out. And that's the same in job interviews or pitching your company to investors. You have to really know how to make a great first impression. And the tactics and the fundamentals are exactly the same between dating and business.

SUGGESTED RESOURCES
• Greenwald’s “13 Conversation Behaviors To Avoid”
• 100 Virtual Icebreakers

SUGGESTED RESOURCES

• Greenwald’s “13 Conversation Behaviors To Avoid”

• 100 Virtual Icebreakers

April: Of course, things like first impressions have changed a lot since the start of the coronavirus pandemic. At sort of its most basic level, how has this crisis changed how we communicate?

Rachel: Well, this is an important time for human connection, a great opportunity for leaders to innovate in a lot of areas, especially communication now that we're online. I say primarily it's really hard to read the room now. What are people's energy levels and their moods? What kind of distractions are they facing? What kind of context are they in when you're having a communication with them online? You know, in real time, you might have cues like if someone's dealing with a health problem or marital problem, they might have a slumped posture or something like that. But it's really hard to read the room now. So there's a lot of changes in communication now that we're in the Zoom era. One of the ways is simply that we need to establish human connection within this virtual format.

April: I imagine that like most of us, you have been on a lot of video calls since the beginning of this crisis. What are some of the smart and useful ways you've seen people adapt to this new work environment?

THE WAY FORWARD

See more from the online-only June Bulletin’s coverage of the path ahead for education, health care, management, and the hotel and restaurant industries.

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THE WAY FORWARD

See more from the online-only June Bulletin’s coverage of the path ahead for education, health care, management, and the hotel and restaurant industries.

Return to June Bulletin

Rachel: Well, I think the smartest thing that anyone can do on a video call is to realize the importance of breaking up monotony. You know, you have to assume that the video call you're on is the tenth Zoom meeting of the day for the other person. You know, Zoom meeting after meeting can be boring and repetitive, just sitting at your computer. So the necessary task is to what I call DBB—don't be boring. So you might need to start with playing a high-energy song as people are arriving into the Zoom room. You know, you could play “Happy” by Pharrell Williams or “I Got a Feeling” by the Black Eyed Peas just to kind of jolt people awake. And you might even start off with a joke to bring some levity to the meeting, especially because people are probably used to hearing bad news all day. My favorite joke recently was “why are people rushing to stockpile toilet paper in the pandemic? Because the virus scares the crap out of everyone.”

April: Rachel, you've studied a lot about conversation styles. Are there particular conversation styles that are either helpful or harmful in the online environment?

Rachel: Yeah. Absolutely. Let me start with the ones that are more harmful. I think developing conversation EQ is a really important trait whether you're online or offline and I have a list that I've created of 13 conversation behaviors to avoid. And these are styles that prevent people from making a meaningful connection with someone. For example, there's a style I call the “one upper" that you want to avoid. That's someone who always tries to top your story, even if it's nothing to brag about. But they just want to have the upper hand. If you say something like, "I haven't left I haven't left the house in 10 days." The "one-upper" might say, well, "I haven't left the house in three weeks." You know, this conversation style can leave you feeling minimized or unheard. There are others like the “expert.” The “expert” knows more than you do and silences you with her confidence. If you might say, “I'm going to wear a mask on my bike ride to avoid that slipstream from nearby riders,” the expert might respond, “Well, actually, there's no such thing as a slipstream. I just read three articles debunking that.” So it makes you feel uneducated or a little embarrassed, maybe even agitated. You know, these are conversation styles that are really frustrating. And it points to the type of person who does best—again, both online and offline—this isn't really any different in the Zoom era—but somebody who is simply curious is the best kind of conversationalist, and they do well in any medium. I like to tell people that your motto should be “Be more interested than interesting.”

April: We have a lot of new things to think about when we're sort of rebuilding the work environment in a virtual world. And it's obviously going to take us some time to create these new norms and figure out the best ways to do this. What questions should leaders be thinking about as they help their employees through this process?

Rachel: So I think we're in a time where leaders really need to redefine empathy and what it means. Empathy translates in different ways, for example, respecting different levels of comfort with video technology. You know, there's an expression that "Boomers aren't Zoomers." So if you have employees or colleagues in their mid 50s or older, they may not be as comfortable with video technology and you might have to have a lot more patience and offer tech support or tutorials for them. It's empathy by thinking of someone else's comfort level first. People are audio or visual learners. Not everybody is really comfortable processing and learning through a video call.

I mean, there are all sorts of different employee styles and preferences. And that doesn't change in a video world. You know, in the dating world, we have this famous line, “It's not you, it's me.” Well, today, the workforce equivalent is "My Wi-Fi isn't working right now." You know, this is an excuse that we're starting to see pop up everywhere because people, you know, are finding a time and place for video, but just because we're now comfortable with it doesn't mean it has to be the default mode.

April: So there's something to be said for video calls. They feel efficient. Do you think this is something we'll continue doing even after the quarantine lifts and we don't have to do anymore?

Rachel: We probably will continue doing it in a minor way. But contrary to what most people think, I don't think that virtual meetings are as effective. There are a couple reasons. People are simply more distracted and multitasking behind the screen. You know, they're secretly texting on the side of the computer monitor while pretending to listen. You can't get away as easily with that in person in the office. And also remember that meetings can be recorded. So people may be less likely to show up because they know they can always watch the recording later and just listen to it on 2x speed. So you'd get less buy-in and connection to the ideas. And I think the speaker or the leader of the meeting, their charisma and their energy just doesn't translate over video. So I actually am not such a fan of video meetings. They're not going to go away entirely for sure. But I think Zoom is going to be plan B, not plan A. when we get back to the regular mode.

April: We're all looking forward to the day things go back to, quote unquote, normal. What I'm wondering is, has this crisis changed how we communicate in fundamental and lasting ways?

Rachel: I do think so. I think what we're learning first and foremost now that I hope we're going to take forward back into, quote, “the real world” is that we're learning the difference between talking versus connecting.

I think talking is our default mode that we've had most of our lives, where we talk about logistics. And leaders and managers, when they talk about logistics—like, can you update me on how your presentation went with the client? What they're really signaling is that your work matters to me. But I think now we're learning more about a deeper level of talking and communicating, which is around connecting. And that's in the realm of something personal, where a leader signals that you matter to me, not just your work. So connecting might sound like "Working from home must be challenging. I'd love to hear what you learned about yourself when you were staying at home." You know, there are differences that I think we are never going to unhear again. You know, there’s been this sequence shift where I think we're showing empathy first before getting to the productivity of business. And this is the same in the dating world. You know, the first question that people used to ask when they met for a date was something around,”So, what do you do?” And now I think daters are saying first, “How are you and your family doing? Is everyone healthy?” And that mental shift, I hope, is something that we're going to do better in the real world.

April: Are there any other lessons you think that we can take away from this experience to improve the “normal” on the other side?

Rachel: Yeah, there's a big one. And I think it's around the topic of improving authenticity.

You know, during the Zoom era, right now we're seeing people's messy, real, authentic lives in the background on the Zoom call. And we're seeing that there's no need to keep up glossy exteriors. And I think that's going to happen when we get back to the office. You know, we're seeing the humanity in our co-workers as they balance at-home learning with their kids or barking dogs or messy hair. And that's gonna be really hard to return to shallow conversation exchanges at the office. I think what we're seeing is a permission to get closer to the people that we work with and get real. We're seeing humanity in a way that I think is really appealing. And we are, I think, never going back.

Skydeck is produced by the External Relations department at Harvard Business School and edited by Craig McDonald. It is available at iTunes and wherever you get your favorite podcasts. For more information or to find archived episodes, visit alumni.hbs.edu/skydeck.

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